Show Notes
Probiotics for plants? Paul Zorner, CEO of Locus Agricultural Solutions in San Diego, explains how bacteria and fungi help plants grow faster and pull more carbon dioxide out of the air. Even better, agricultural companies that use probiotics see a 200% return on investment in crop yields and use fewer fertilizers. Paul grew up on a farm and “hated it” but later began to see the beauty in the natural world.
TRANSCRIPT:
Intro: 0:01
Inventors and their inventions. Welcome to Radio Cade and podcast from the Cade Museum for Creativity and Invention in Gainesville, Florida. The museum is named after James Robert Cade, who invented Gatorade in 1965. My name is Richard Miles. We’ll introduce you to inventors and the things that motivate them, we’ll learn about their personal stories, how their inventions work, and how their ideas get from the laboratory to the marketplace.
Richard Miles: 0:38
Probiotics for plants, they make plants healthier, more productive, and better able to take carbon out of the atmosphere. I’m your host Richard Miles today on Radio Cade . My guest is Paul Zorner, CEO of Locus Agricultural Solutions based in San Diego. Welcome to Radio Cade, Paul.
Paul Zorner: 0:54
Thank you, Richard. It’s a pleasure.
Richard Miles: 0:55
So Paul, before we talk about plants, let’s talk about probiotics. I think most people have heard of them and know in a vague way that they are somehow good for us, but explain what probiotics actually are and what their function is.
Paul Zorner: 1:09
Great . Well , I , most people have seen lots of information on probiotics for humans. They occupy our intestines and they regulate all kinds of things from our immune health to our nutrient status, to even our mood and plants are no different. But in this case, probiotics for plants are our live organisms, bacteria and fungi that live in the roots of plants and they perform the same function for that plant, that microbes in our intestines serve for us. They make the plant’s immune system better. They help it take up nutrients from the soil and they allow it to grow faster, better produce more food. And in this particular case to turn the plant into an increased carbon pump, a stronger carbon pump in terms of pulling carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere and turning it into sugars that ultimately get turned into carbon down in the soil, which is a wonderful thing, especially in this day and age where we’re so worried about global warming.
Richard Miles: 2:00
So Paul, is there a way to precisely measure the increase in all these good things like the increase in the plan , how the productivity and the ability to take carbon out of the air ? I imagine that you can do a before and after without probiotics and nose width. Is it that refined?
Paul Zorner: 2:15
Absolutely . And generally when we put trials out, we focus on, on agronomic performance owners. We work with growers and we work in Florida with , with citrus growers, for example, and we’ll generally put this out to their micro sprinklers and drip irrigation systems to get it out of the root. Then we compare a treatment with our probiotic against what we call grower practice, whatever the grower is doing. We bolted onto that and we take a look at the increased growth of the plant, more leads, greener leads. And then ultimately what’s important is the yield of the, of the citrus. None of the disease, getting more cases of citrus growers is more pound solid, more fruits and more sugar and things that are valuable to him. So that part is pretty easy. It takes time, of course, but then in terms of carbon, many people around the world are working on, okay, you take a soil sample and pull it up and you can send it off to a lab and you can measure the amount of organic carbon that’s been deposited around the root system again, compared to grower practice. So there are standard techniques for measuring just about anything. It’s just a matter of using the right one. And of course our major focus is economic yield for the grower. But again, what we found was really fascinating that as we did that and focused on a more productive plant , the salvage remarkable increase in carbon soil , carbon sequestration as well.
Richard Miles: 3:26
Was that kind of an accidental finding or did you know, it might have this effect from the very beginning?
Paul Zorner: 3:30
Science tells you that you should see something like this, but what we were doing, especially in Florida, citrus, as we’re trying to show the grower, what might be happening between the time he applied our material , which would be early and then your nine months later, 12 months later, when he was actually determines how much yield increasing might’ve got . And so we’ll measure root mass increase, and we get like a double , another fibrous with mass and increased canopy and increased food set. But we also thought let’s take a look at the soil in terms of its physiological characteristics. So I was brief , you know as a kid, I grew up in a farm and my mom used to take a handful of soil at different places in the farm and literally smell it. This is good or that’s bad. So wells are aligned they believe they’re like little fermenters themselves. So I thought, well, let’s take a look at the soils breath, if you will all be emissions and sure enough , we went out there, there are techniques you can use to measure things. And we saw a reduction in carbon dioxide, emission and nitric oxide, which is 300 times the global warming gas, the carbon dioxide idea. So obviously we were changing to us the microbial population, cause that’s what we’re doing. So those types of edmissions. And so then we thought, okay, we’re seeing those types of reductions. Let’s go measure the soil carbon. And sure enough, reduce carbon dioxide in the atmosphere was clearly associated with increased carbon sequestration in the soil. So a bit of a surprise, but also when you thought about it , and okay, this, make sense.
Richard Miles: 4:48
You mention the citrus industry, have you found, there are certain types of crops that it’s more effective on and then others in which you don’t get, maybe the results you’re looking for on both counts in terms of crop yield, but then also the carbon sequestration piece is it’s got a uniform across crops or do you see big differences depending on what crop you’re talking about?
Paul Zorner: 5:07
Yeah, that’s a good question. And it’s not so much differences across crops as it is a class. So all types, the time of year, in other words, how cold or warm the soil is, how much moisture the soil has generally soil health. And we kind of used the term agricultural probiotics , but we hear a lot of people talking about microbial soil health as well. It’s important for all crops. And what we have found is two particular organisms that seem to work very well across the multitude of crops and conditions, but we think we can optimize it for grain to Northern , compared to citrus in Florida as well that we might have a good base case. We do have an excellent kind of base mechanism that we may find that we can add additional materials that will improve it even further as well, but we get good yield across multiple crops.
Richard Miles: 5:51
So that leads me, I guess, to that follow up question. So if it is soil based and not necessarily crop base , do you find regional differences? I mean, is this something that works really well in Florida types of soils and not so well in Texas or the Midwest or?
Paul Zorner: 6:04
No , we see good results. Like for example, in potatoes, we see as much as a 40% increase and potato fields , you might see differences. We see a 5% increase in field corn, but that’s not so much a function of the microorganisms in the soil types. It’s a function of the genomics of the crop and what kind of stress it might be under a variety of other factors in general, when you think about it, probiotics for crops are important with Ellis whatsoever, but region what crop, you need a very active microbial population and the roots of those crops for a plant to truly express its full yield potential.
Richard Miles: 6:38
So it sounds like a great idea with a great business potential. Let’s talk about that. About the business side of it. Did you start out as the primary investigator, primary researcher of this technology, or when did you come along and then what is the contrast between that side of it and then developing the company itself, finding those customers, closing those deals, hiring staff, growing the company, describe a little bit of what that’s been like.
Paul Zorner: 7:00
Well, number one, I’ve worked in agriculture my entire life. So I’m 65 years old, right? So I’ve had a more than a 40 year career and I’ve worked on both the agricultural chemical side, but also I have worked extensively in microbes as well. And the founders of the company and friends that I’ve had for 20 years, Andy Lefkowitz and Shawn Filer had a company called Canadian bio-sciences that made human probiotics and actuality, that company became the largest seller and developer of human probiotics in the world outside of the dairy case. And so they had a lot of knowledge there and we kept in touch over those 20 years and thought, wow, we , Hey, we really liked each other. We had, what can we do to be meaningful and agriculture while we all thought that this would be something that would be very good to do because it’s has a limited effectiveness. People look at probiotics for plants as sometimes inconsistent at best. And we felt that it wasn’t necessarily the fact that the work microbes that you’ve applied to soil . So it would make the crop more productive, but deployment, you put a live microbes in an agricultural supply chain . It’s nine to 12 months long and it’s they’re live organisms. They had to go back to the yogurt analogy. It’s like, if you took a cup of fresh yogurt and put it through a supply chain for nine to 12 months , you wouldn’t think you could eat it. Or at least you wouldn’t enjoy eating at 12 months later. And so what we have done is we’ve created a technology that I would refer to as like a microbrewery for agriculture and what that does allow us to set up distributed fermentation facilities, or just local regional fermentation facilities, where we can grow these materials up at very high concentrations, very inexpensively, and deliver them to the grower no more than let’s say 10 to 12 weeks after they’ve been produced. And we have a very unique culture chain, whether it’s kept cold the entire time up to point at time to deliver . So we’ve kind of taken a different tack to it based upon our belief that microbes are going to be important part of proven productivity, but then thought about a business model whereby we could make sure we could deliver the consistency and the efficacy of these materials that at reasonable prices and serve it in the way that actually helped him increases on farm profits.
Richard Miles: 8:59
Growers is using the microbes or the probiotics. Is that an, a significant upfront investment for them? And how much does it add to their overall costs ?
Paul Zorner: 9:08
Well, it depends. It’s not a real answer, but let me explain that it’s not a significant investment. Let’s take like corn in the Midwest, basically nine to $10 per acre for our treatment to the grower. And they may get anywhere from a 10 to a 13 bushel increase in yield. And even corn at $3 per bushel, which is remarkably low price. That’s 30 bucks against $10 investment that generally the rule of thumb in agriculture is if I make the grower three bucks, he’ll turn around and give me a dollar. You want that three to one return. So that pencils out, what he’s after is I want to return it , our investment. Now, it gets even better at over time. And that what we have begin to show is that we can also reduce the amount of fertilizer that they need to use, which is good. Not only in terms of taking some costs out of the bucket to allow them to pay for ours, but also helps with environmental services. People are really worried about moving to other environments, right? And then, so that’s the above-ground part of it. Then the input part of it, we’re also working to monetize the below ground carbon, where there are markets where you can trade carbon credits and grower would produce them. Then somebody like the United airlines or Amazon or other companies that are trying to reduce their carbon footprint, we’ll buy those credits from the growers . So it’s kind of a triple bottom line if you will, both environmentally, socially and economically, but triple in terms of increased yield, decreased inputs and potentially carbon monetization as well.
Richard Miles: 10:35
It sounds like the perfect solution. There’s something in here for just about everyone to like, right. You’re not just appealing to one group is this is a win-win when , as you said for a lot of people.
Paul Zorner: 10:44
Yeah , certainly one thing as a company too, we’re dedicated to that a week ago, we received our B Corp certification, which is a big deal. A B Corp as a special group of people is 2,500 beneficial corporations around the world. We’re the first ag input company in North America, Europe or Asia to receive a B Corp certification. What it means is a third party audit that basically certifies that as a company, you’re paying attention, balance economics, but also social purpose and how you treat your workforce, how you interact with your customers, you get attention to both profit and purpose in terms of what you’re trying to do as a company. In other words, not only am I sitting here talking about this, we actually are doing it as well. And we’re very proud of that.
Richard Miles: 11:23
So Paul one sign of success for new technology is when people start copying it right, and competing with you. So what does your market space look like right now? Have other competitors offering similar services jumped into the market, or you had this all to yourself?
Paul Zorner: 11:36
Uh, no, there are many good companies out there. We have a very unique platform in terms of our ability to directly impact carbon sequestration. Our fermentation platform is really unique , but there are probably 50 significant companies globally out there doing things like this. And it’s around for many years, in some cases, or people will do compost or what they call compost teas. Compost is basically a mechanism of taking organic matter and getting it to begin to degrade , which is building up microbes. And it’s a way of putting microbes back into the soil. But what we’re doing is just doing it very efficiently, a very concentrated material in order to drive more of that, that population increases and those microbes that are important for plant yield .
Richard Miles: 12:19
So at what point will your method specifically be the new best practice? Can you already foresee a point where no farmer in their right mind wouldn’t do this?
Paul Zorner: 12:27
Well, growers, like I said, they look at them somewhat skeptically right now because of lack of consistency. And I think as we show that we’ve developed a process that eliminates that lack of consistency, yes. Growers will adopt this right now. It’s just that their growers are show me, they’ve got to have the increase in on-farm, profit’s gotta be at least preempt to do this. Right. But I will tell you though, growers are natural stewards of the land. They understand us instantaneously. It’s a complex physiological process. Most growers understand that like I need to live healthy soils. So if you can show me, you can deliver that to me on a consistent basis and allow me to invest in your product and get a return on that investment. They’re all in .
Richard Miles: 13:09
So let’s talk now about you, Paul, as you mentioned, you’ve been in the agricultural business for basically all of your adult life. And before that actually growing up, you’re a West coast guy, right? About 30 years in San Diego. And then before that you grew up in Oregon and San Francisco Bay area, and then you also grew up on a farm. Is that correct?
Paul Zorner: 13:26
We grew up on a farm, spent the early part of my life and the Bay area , and then an Oregon to college that bounced around, I’ve lived in Kentucky, North Carolina. I spent three years in Africa, three years in the Hawaii , but basically had home base here at San Diego for 30 years.
Richard Miles: 13:41
You could only handle so much east coast. Right? And then you had to beat feet back the west coast?
Paul Zorner: 13:45
I love the east coast. I’ve actually have an adjunct professor of horticulture at North Carolina State University, 32 years.
Richard Miles: 13:53
So you grew up on a farm. How obviously shaped you in some way in your choice of career, but are there specific memories you have of thinking like, I feel called to do this, or this is really what I want to do professionally. And what were some of the influences on you growing up? I mean, like pre-academic self as a child, as a teenager, parents, teachers, what else sort of shaped you in that time period?
Paul Zorner: 14:12
Well, okay. I’ll give you the answer that you might not expect to start with, but you know, I grew up on a moderately sized horticultural nursery. We grew laceleaf Maples rather than the new zelias things like that. And we also have 30 acres of raspberries and I will tell you, I hated it at the time, it’s work. I don’t know if you’ve ever prude , raspberry bushes, like gosh, right. Or gone out and fed the chickens at four in the morning, you know, and had all your chores to do before school then had to get back from school in order to help with that. But it did get my blood. I went off in college and studied biology in high school and I wanted to be a doctor, but I couldn’t stand the sight of blood. So yeah .
Richard Miles: 14:50
Yeah thats a show stopper right there.
Paul Zorner: 14:52
Yeah. But ultimately my memory i s i n my work on our farm and even listening to my mother, I never did my father. My mother was a single parent. She worked hard and she certainly taught us a lot of stuff as well. I could name just about any plant species in Oregon on site i t’s scientific name as well. But again, to understand, once I was in school, what was going on in the farm and what had natural biologist or ecologist, my mom was terms of taking care of the farm and its soil and everything else. And t hat’s fascinated me. I t’s like a big puzzle. And also it’s, it’s beautiful, but in a relationship between species that we share this beautiful blue globe that we occupied a wonderful thing. And so I was smitten, and I didn’t necessarily think in college, I was going to go work in agriculture a gain, but then it became apparent i n when I was studying systems, ecology, agriculture i s a great place to do this. Also when I went to graduate, I wanted to get an advanced degree and the only person that offered me an assistantship, so I could afford to go to college was a lead scientist, Bob Ziptal at C olorado State University. So it was to work on agricultural ecology. So i t s et like a g love. I was working on seed populations. And that just grew from there. It just s ucks you in, in terms of the beauty of the relationships, but then ultimately also then you realize, well, wow, agriculture truly is a pathway to peace that rural communities can, can produce food. And you can also produce energy from agriculture and you can have a stability in terms of food and energy, which translates to economic stability. If you have economic stability, you have political stability. So I truly believe that agriculture is the foundation of a free society. A nd so t hat pulled in from that respect as well. It’s been 40, 45 years of pure joy in terms of trying to bring innovation to agriculture, to h elp growers be more productive for unit of land or make a liter of water. And most importantly, it took f or dollar t hat i nvested capital.
Richard Miles: 16:46
So Paul, you’re the CEO of a successful company and you’ve had a great career. You’re probably asked to speak from time to time, maybe to students or professional groups. What sort of words, you know , particularly sort of the students, someone just recently graduated from college, what sort of wisdom or advice do you give to those folks? If they’re trying to figure out what sort of career do I go to? What kind of choices do I make? Are there things that you tell them? We definitely do this and definitely stay away from that.
Paul Zorner: 17:13
Two things. One is I always say, do what you love and never take a job that pays you more money over something that you’re absolutely going to be in love with . That’s a recipe for disaster, because if you love doing something, the problems are going to just be challenges. There’ll be excited and you’ll be able to excite other people as well. And then secondly, once you land somewhere focus on doing your own job well, but mind to appreciate other people. And this is a team sport, people are different, you know, you’d might as break or I’m an ENTP or 16 of them pitching, followed by us break was I learned very early on in my career that wow, some people they’re different. I wonder why I have no idea. And he just think about things differently and it’s not because they’re wrong. It’s because they look at the world through a different prison. If you can begin to appreciate that they’re also, you know, know yourself, but know them. Wow. It really opens up great possibilities for teamwork in terms of things being even more productive and fun than they were otherwise. As you get people with all these different ways of looking at things and really remarkable innovation could occur in a situation like that. So do what you love and appreciate, and respect yourself and appreciate and respect the people that you work with. And then lastly, never let the perfect idea get ahead of you. There’s no such thing as perfection get going , and don’t expect perfection from yourself and don’t expect perfection from the people you work with because innovation happens one messy step at a time. And oftentimes it can be one step forward, two steps backwards, three steps forward a step to the side, not a straight line from idea to success. It looks like a tossed bunch of spaghetti on a plate, You move from one side of plate together. That’s innovation.
Richard Miles: 18:51
Interesting. I asked this question of almost all of our guests in terms of what was their journey like then there seems to be a correlation between the folks who’ve been around a little bit longer. They almost always use the exact same line and you just use it that it’s not a straight line. Whereas some of the younger entrepreneurs I talk to say, well, it’s all about hard work and , and is both right. But I think the ones who’ve been through an entire career realized that sometimes hard work won’t get you the immediate results you need. And you take, like you said, a step to the side or even a step back sometimes .
Paul Zorner: 19:17
And you know, also about resilience. Yeah . Hard work and resilience. And I often tell people I have close to 40 patents and I will tell you great. Majority of those are patents on things that I didn’t start to do on purpose. They were observations from starting a process and realizing that, wow, that’s not what I would have thought. Let’s explore that. That’s what came up with innovation, right ? So ideas are very hard. Work is great, but it’s resilience and being aware of your surroundings, trying to look for things that aren’t obvious.
Richard Miles: 19:46
Paul, this has been a great conversation. Appreciate you taking the time and congratulations on the success of your company, Locus Agricultural Solutions, and look forward to having you back on the show at some point.
Paul Zorner: 19:57
Richard, thank you so much for taking the time to put me on your show. I enjoyed it thoroughly.
Richard Miles: 20:01
Great.Thank you.
Paul Zorner: 20:02
All right . Bye- bye.
Richard Miles: 20:03
Bye – bye, I’m Richard Miles.
Outro: 20:06
Radio Cade would like to thank the following people for their help and support Liz Gist of the Cade Museum for coordinating and vendor interviews. Bob McPeak of Heartwood Soundstage in downtown Gainesville, Florida for recording, editing and production of the podcasts and music theme. Tracy Collins for the composition and performance of the Radio Cade theme song, featuring violinist, Jacob Lawson and special thanks to the Cade Museum for Creativity and Invention located in Gainesville, Florida.
